Unfinished Conversations #1
Design is an attitude – and this comes about through conversations, arguments, trust and courage. What becomes visible in the end is the finished work, a product, an oeuvre. What is, however, no longer visible are the people who worked on it, who wrestled and fought for months and were convinced of the thing when it was still not real. It is, however, precisely these people whose skill lies in design. They are the ones who made the thing possible in the first place.
That is why we are continuing our series of conversations in which the invisible, the human being, is given a face. We don’t want to tell any success stories and we don’t want to recount what people often like to read about themselves. We do not want to provide any steadfast structures and conclusive explanations. What we want is to show what life is really like. What relationships are really like. Lively. Illogical. Volatile.
This little book is the beginning – it is unfinished, of course, and it is an experiment. That is the way it is when you start an experiment with an unclear outcome.
At the same time, it is also a thank you. To all those designers who soldier on and deal with the challenges we are faced with every day.
Thank you! You are magnificent.
Florian Hufnagl
Medium
Michael Keller
Regular
Have you ever told the story of your life?
No.
Well, do you think your way through it? How was it all?
Yes, I wonder where and how I was successful. And I wonder about the things I didn’t make a success of. And about those exceptions in my life when, to put it carefully, I was only partially good.
What makes you special, Florian? What makes you happy?
I want to discover things. That’s why I told my students: be curious! I feel – and this is how I saw myself in my job – as if I was always following my nose, assessing the situation and then full speed ahead and then I trek through the Arctic because I want to see how I can get to Kamchatka! And I’m telling you, I make it! And if they want to transport oil, or whatever, behind me, then let them. They couldn’t have done it alone. That’s what I’m interested in. Only the things that are there, are there.
Why didn’t you become an artist? Or, … you know what I mean … a designer?
Because I can’t draw. I have a gigantic spatial imagination. I set up rooms. But I can’t genuinely rely on myself to create something. That means I observe. I’m a very strict observer. And analyst. I analyse everything. And I control everything.
And do you then pick out pieces and sort them …
… and combine them … and ask what’s interesting? I can’t rely on myself to create something. I need a stimulus. Do you understand?
Very nice.
I see something and say that’s it. I browsed through three auction catalogues today. I found one item. Just one item I would buy.
What does it mean – the fact that you can now no longer buy for the collection? How do you deal with that?
That’s just it! I feel I am unfortunately being denied this.
What does possession mean?
I can collect without having to possess.
(Laughs) And yet on the other hand, you have amassed the biggest collection in the world with over … ?
… 100,000 items.
100,000 items, all of which you have hidden down in the basement and didn’t show to anybody, not even me.
Do you like things more than pictures?
Yes. My father was an architect. Architecture always makes both an internal statement and an external one. You can see it when you drive through a desolate area like this one – you can see it on every front door (laughs), on every gate. It’s all there.
Like a business card. And your house?
I was remodelling my house at that time. So I kept the actual building, but threw most of the other stuff out. At the entrance I made an opening. Using the old front doors, I just moved them to the middle, with a window on the left and right.
And a stone floor, obviously. I love it.
I am interested in things – and doing things, making things. That’s what is so decisive. The difference between me and my dearly beloved Attila (long-legged pug*2) is the fact that I make something. He goes into the meadow and makes a pile. When Attila snuffs it, then it’s over. And when I snuff it, it’s over, too. All that’s left is what I made. Like my house the collection and the objects in it.
This is such an object (points to the auction catalogue). Put this glass lamp next to the Bauhaus lamp.
But I thought you were showing me a Bauhaus*3 lamp.
No, it is not. It was designed 30 years earlier.
Ouch. It’s beautiful. A “Bruno Paul*4 table lamp, 1901”. That was the start of the Neue Sammlung (New Collection). Art nouveau. isn’t it? Yes, indeed. “Dresden”. The workshops were actually in … ?
… Munich. And then they moved to Dresden.
Munich is actually the real origin. That’s where it came about. For you that is the source. The workshops.
Yes, that’s the way it is. The workshops are the forerunners, also of Ikea. Kamprad*5 took a very close and careful look at them. When you think of my Ikea exhibition*6, I put the workshops there and Ikea next to them. He studied them.
Very clever.
Then he put something together like a Neue Sammlung (new collection). He did actually collect, produce and put things together, too. He probably couldn’t draw, either. Actually he was like you.
He observed, travelled around, shopped. Tried again to optimise. He didn’t have his designers in Sweden, either, but in Copenhagen.
(The radio is playing in the background:“Wish I could turn back time, to the good old days”)
That’s the same thing you told me back then – why Thonet*7 became so famous because he … how many chairs did he manage to put in a box for dispatch?
36 in one cubic metre. Kamprad did the same. He changed an industry – through packaging!
Why did you actually study archaeology?
Point 1, I didn’t study archaeology, I studied art history. I didn’t intend to work in the field of aesthetics, but in art history. And my motivation was perfectly clear, because it was the time of my high school exams (Abitur) and I had a job working for Gunter Sachs*8 as his errand boy. That was where I came into contact with the contemporary art of the time -American pop art and the remains of Parisian art. We’re talking about the years 1967/68.
(he reflects on this)
The question is, “What was before that?” Because when you are walking in the present, towards a very exciting future, then, in my view, you have to know, “Where are you coming from?”
If you could invent a new university course – today – what would its name be?
A difficult question. Because knowledge is one thing, doing or making things is another. And what use is it to you if you know something, but you can’t show it in some way.
I’m an art historian. Nowadays there are no longer any art historians – there are only curators. I think I’m going off my rocker. For me, as a museum man, it is important that I curate exhibitions myself, i.e. look for ideas and put them together, present them, ultimately also market them.
And you tell people about it.
That’s the bottom line. Because that’s the only chance you have to reach people. If it’s too cerebral, then its good night to you and good night to me.
My daughter once asked me … at the local pub: “Dad, are you a determiner?” And then I said: “Yes. But I’m also a doer, a maker.” And that’s really all there is to it.
I understand that very well. (laughs)
(both reflect)
What would you study today?
I would probably go into politics today.
Oh, you now trying to shock me.
Because there aren’t so many good people in politics. You just have to take a look at the kind of ministries we have here, and what ministers we have. And you put so much effort into it … , sorry, Mike, you give your all … for nothing. I just have a problem with that. (continues to mumble angrily).
You would have had more impact, if you had gone into politics. We’re fighting all alone here.
What can we do then?
Maybe bring the Vereinigte Werkstätten (United Workshops)*9 back to life?
And how much dough do you need for that?
You don’t need dough, you need the will.
And above all, a sixth sense for value appreciation.
You have to think beyond your generation.
And you have to be able to take action, that’s why I also went to the collection at the weekend and checked all the bills and filing. In order to make sure I know at any time wherever I am just how much money I have, whether I can shell some out or not. I only ever bought things when I had money in my pocket. Because only then could I negotiate. And say – I’ll buy it. If you’ll carry it to my VW bus.
But that’s exactly the problem. It’s the same with us. This ability to take action is a form of freedom, of independence. And in the very moment you are no longer able to take action, you become unfree and someone else from another world decides what you should do. It’s then that you are no longer a designer, but a service provider. Someone, who implements what someone else wants. Nothing is created, nothing really new.
(both think for a moment)
Knowing and doing – we need both. Would you combine the two of them in a course of study today or would you leave them separated?
I would leave them separated.
I think we need both. That’s what you told me back then when I had my exhibition*10. They are the left and the right cerebral hemispheres. It’s not a case of one or the other. It is fantastic that we have both the rational and the creative. Do you remember the movie “Matrix”*11? when he asks “Do you want the red or the blue pill?”. We had to choose one side, we just took one pill when we were asked.
That is the way we designed our new office building. Everything can be connected.
You can see that in your new domicile. It is no longer uniform, but completely different. That really impressed me. You meet different cultures.
Exactly. We are a German design studio that operates internationally. And that’s why I need international people who feel comfortable with us and with whom I can create and design. And every floor has a different …
… character.
Character.
When i visited you, that’s what i found most exciting.
Yes, there is a big discussion these days about “Home Office”. We asked ourselves – why can’t the office also be a home? Why does everything in the business world have to be so ugly? We wanted to have a building where people would like to spend time and stay a while – and where everything would come together. Thinkers on three floors, doers/makers on three floors – but every-thing under one roof.
(The radio is playing in the background:“How long before I get in?”)
The way you furnished it, it’s not all classic, radical design. That’s not it at all.
Nope. (laughs) No, definitely not. All the furniture is second-hand and we chose every single piece especially to fit in with the building – from all over the world. This has made our hodgepodge something individual and very personal.
You also have to listen a lot more these days, work on an idea together. It’s more about the “We” than the “I”. I find that so fascinating, especially when you look at these cupboards – are they even called cupboards?
They are called Tansus.
Tansus.
When you look at them, it is not immediately clear what they are.
You must first understand that a pole can be inserted through the top. That’s why these handles are so high on the side. Enabling two people to carry them at any time, also because the wood is so light. The wrought iron ensures that the content is protected even if they are dropped or fall.
And at that moment when you hear this story and you hear how old they are, you say to yourself, “Oh my goodness. A piece of fur-niture whose genetic mobility will go on forever.”
I have put the oldest Tansu into the collection. It even has wheels on one side. In the face of an attack or flood you could simply pick it up and roll it away.
Florian, please look at the suitcases we have today. The ones everyone at the airport pushes around. They always have two wheels – or even four today. And have a big, long pole/handle on the side. When do your Tansus date back to? To 1800. In Japan. That fascinates me.
(both think – Attila lies down at the feet of his master)
Do you have rituals?
Yes, of course. I never go home without a bottle of wine.
And when you were the director of the collection, were rituals part of your approach to work?
Yes. I had very clear time classifications. At 7.30 in the morning I talked with my ministry on the phone. I soon knew what was going on.
And who did you speak to?
The responsible ministry official or his superior.
And then: “Good morning, how are you?”
“What are you up to, man. You’re listening to some cool music.” Then I say, “Yes, I don’t have to be in the state parliament at nine o’clock and before that make my minister happy.” Then they were all gone and I had the very latest information when I went to the collection. Then I read the newspapers, the Süddeutsche and FAZ. Then I knew what was hip in the cultural field. Then I rushed into the office, I sat down and called: “Ms. Schubeeert!” Luckily I always had someone to help me. No matter where I was or had been. Back from Milan, back from Berlin. “A big thank you for the friendly welcome you extended. I am particularly grateful for … blah blah blah … ”. I was able to get that off on the same day and, yes, I was always that fast. The subject of speed, you see, was always a very decisive criterion for me.
Because it implies reliability.
Yes. Now I miss that kind of efficiency and that kind of speed …
I understand.
It takes me a relatively long time to come round in the morning. I need my coffee at six o’clock. So when I say six o’clock, I mean six o’clock. And not six thirty-five.
What happened after doing the post?
Then I went on a tour of the building. Always.
Was that “marking your territory”?
Yes, of course.
But they always knew when you would come.
The times were always different – depending on how long the post took …
… so they had been standing at attention for an hour.
And I had a master key, meaning I could go in at any time in without further ado. Of course I had the house completely under control.
That is clear. Control was important.
Decisive.
“How much money do I have left in the till?” was always a topic.
Yes, I focused on it five times a year. I checked everything over and over again. I also checked my own bookkeeping. The errors that were found – oh!
There were new objects, right?
(both laugh)
That’s what I was notorious for. I stretched my budget to the very limit – to the last hundred euros. Then I said “Authorise”. Transfer!. When I went, it really was risky – almost the eleventh hour.
And after the tour?
I drank an espresso.
(both laugh)
Standing at the bar?
Well, it was served to me.
And let’s not forget the cigarettes. You’d already been through one packet up to that point.
(both laugh)
And there were always visits in the afternoon?
The visits varied. Depending on where they came from – there was always a buffer between them. Because they usually did not come from Munich. They were then sent to the famous visitor benches.
I know them, the narrow benches.
They were then reoccupied every half hour.
You couldn’t sit on them any longer anyway. That was the whole idea.
That was the idea, exactly. And then Frau Schubert came in and said: ”Professor, please don’t forget your next appointment.”
Great.
And then it was quite clear – get out there!
I went through that a thousand times.
(long pause for thought)
What does beauty mean to you?
Simplicity. Functionality.Like that Korean box over there.
That one? The one I am looking at? Honestly you mean hat box over there?
Yes. Ingo*13 gave it to me. Full of ginseng.
In his honour.
Yes. I actually wanted to go to the osteria with him.Where were we?
(both thinking)
Hey, what’s that?
That is an African ladder.
(they laugh)
Are you religious?
No.
What fascinates you about the sacrificial bowls?
They are from Africa. Go look outside in front of the door. They are sacrificial bowls, too. They place them in front of their huts – to ward off evil. Similar to my ring.
(he shows a large, square ring on his right hand)
It seems to work. Where did you get the ring from?
It’s a Tuareg*14 ring. 200 years old. I had somebody get it for me.
(long pause for thought)
Florian, when was your best time?
(Silence)
So, the best moment, the best time, was after 1995. We had started with the planning of the Pinakothek der Moderne. I was present when it was being built and I knew that the construction work would take ten years. There has never been a single construction project that was completed in less than ten years, well, not city buildings anyway. This gave me a rough estimate of how much time I had. Then I was able to distribute the dough year after year, then I knew how much money I actually had, then I was able to go on my trips again. And since I had money in my pocket, I could say, “Mmmh, interesting, how much does that cost?” It’s like a rice bowl – if I eat up all the rice, then no rice will grow again afterwards. Make me a good offer and I’ll buy it.
Nice, very nice.
(long pause for thought)
Where do you get your knowledge from?
I read a lot. And I’m on the internet a lot. One subject that interests me a lot is the relationship between design and culture. Design is actually only possible through our culture. And cultures are different. And that’s why I don’t believe in an international design culture. It is a like an inevitable process – in each area there develops an international style, as is the case with cell phones. When the need for internationality has been satisfied, the focus goes back onto cultural identity.
(He points to his desk)
Look here, it’s all full of books. The only thing I’m reading right now is African literature. Art history is on the back burner. But these are the things that fascinate me. Look at this mask. It’s from Burkina Faso.
Where does this fascination for Africa come from?
In my eyes it is a natural culture. Everything is ornate and imaginative. You just can’t imagine the textiles they have. Much freer than ours. And the way they put the pleats together, it’s unbelievable. It’s the same as with the patterns and cuts from ancient Thailand. Only upto the 18th century though, because in the 19th century they started to imitate European styles. And that was all ”yuck” until 1980. And then it all took off again and don’t ask which international prizes they have been awarded. Like Versace.
You mean Africa is the leading culture right now? Are we all supposed to look there?
Yes. And at some point it starts all over again, and we will all be running around in black.
Nice image.
The carpet weavers saw it coming and integrated it into their culture. This is a master’s thesis produced by someone at the LMU (Munich University).
(browses through the work)
Transport vehicles. all the tanks, all the war materials in the form of a carpet. They wove the story themselves, so to speak. The work was done, so to speak, as if they were at war.
I have about 40 or 50 carpets.
You are a madman. In the full sense of the word – mad.
(long pause for thought)
Why was the professorship important
Excuse me – that was very important at the time. If you, as a Herr Professor, with a doctor title, worked at an institution and voiced your opinion, then it had much more impact than a statement by a normal art historian. And because of that, I could do things differently when dealing with companies and organisations.
Yes, of course, you will be welcomed, you will be listened to and you can make a difference. It’s a kind of key. There are no longer any locked doors.
(Long pause, Attila sighs)
What are you leaving as a legacy? What are you proud of?
I turned the collection into what we set out to do with it. State-of-the-art.
How does collecting work? How did you do it?
Ah! Three things. First, we were in contact with industry right from the start.
Do you remember our joint Lamborghini exhibition? ”Myths”*15? Was that such an industrial cooperation? What could we have done better or worse?
Nothing, it was fine. The exhibition was crazy. And it was also crazy from the vehicles point of view. It was supposed to be an “unbranded presentation”. It was supposed to focus on the “Lamborghini” theme in Italian culture.
That’s why we fought to ensure that the colour wouldn’t be yellow, but… green. We even fought over drill holes – they were only allowed to be as big as a size six wall plug. It was a bottle of red wine that brought us back together again. (laughs)
A somewhat lacklustre one. Right.
We had lighting of only one lux back then, so that you could only guess at which vehicles were on display. We projected sketches by Luc Donckerwolke*16, who was then head of design, onto the wall above the vehicles. They made the iconic line of the vehicles visible.
Second, we set ourselves apart from the historical areas. Munich was always arts and crafts, through King Ludwig the Second. And through an academy that had always been very traditional, landscape painting, the devil only knows what else …
Which you lovingly called vinegar and oil.
Third, to be active both nationally and internationally. Right from the very beginning. Our founding director, he went really everywhere in the world. And it even says in our foundation charter that we should strive to deal with other cultures.
And that’s how it grew, the Neue Sammlung (New Collection). You are older than MoMA*17 anyway, right?
Long before MoMA. We kicked off in 1900. 1900. Way before Bauhaus.
Then why didn’t you open the collection to the general public and put all those famous 100,000 items on display? What did you collect them for?
Publicising might well be inevitably necessary, but it is not urgently necessary. It is used by people with the aimof self-portrayal, along the lines of “I’m a famous writer.”
I was only allowed to see a small part – I was incredibly moved and learned an incredible amount. Don’t you think that people can be infected with the items – regardless of whether you publicise them or exhibit them or make them visible or accessible?
Well, I did, after all, organise the first design exhibition ever.
Yes, of course, point taken.
I publicised things through the variety of exhibitions I did. But I also believe if you write a book and say the church in Diessen is from 1721, then at some point someone will come along and decide that you’re crazy, because you didn’t look closely enough, the church is from 1723.
(both laugh)
And that’s exactly the point that I am not interested in.
Can the system at the Neue Sammlung (New Collection) still work at all? By the way, I find the word Neue (New) quite amusing. New Collection? Have you seen anything new in the last ten years?
You can only find something new if you respect tradition or what was there before. Only then. That is what helped me to put the collection together. And now it’s getting exciting again – what is design anyway? Design is the idea, though the product is exactly the idea at that time.
In context, yes. Absolutely right.
Everything changes. Not only the screws, the surfaces, everything in the right sequence.
The idea is actually timeless, but the very moment the idea becomes a product or reality, it then has a time reference and is firmly anchored in the culture.
Only the idea. But I just can’t operate like Herr von Vitra*18, who is also a bit of a nerd like me. He goes off and buys the estate of a Brazilian architect for a million. There is no way we can do that. I’m sorry about it, but that’s the way it is. We always have to work on an honorary basis. Then they say thank you. When I give a lecture…
… with a bottle of wine.
Yes.
At least I take a few cakes along.
(both laugh)
At least they’re something solid.
(Laugh)
You are free!
That’s the way it is.
(Contemplative silence, only Attila grunts)
Where would you send someone today? For training, I mean?
To Prague.
Seriously? For a designer? Not the Royal College?
No.
No Parsons School of Design, no Pasadena Art Center? Does the place mean more to you than the school?
Yes.
Which university would it be, then?
Well, we have the academy here. And that’s good.
Are we now talking about product design or also general design?
I’m talking about design, but that’s also product design. Product design is, however, relatively limited. But they have two outstanding architects who build internationally. Who build in London, who build in South America and they also do product design.
And Prague is an international place. Because everybody goes there. You have a lot of English people there. You have a lot of Americans there. They’re all going to Prague.
(The radio is playing in the background:“I wanna go there, still I don’t go there.”)
As we talk so much about international design – where is German design? Where is our focus?
Offenbach.
Offenbach? What is the teaching like there? Would you go back to hardcore Bauhaus again? Or should it be even more interdisciplinary?
No, it’s already more interdisciplinary, which is pretty good. In Offenbach, for example, they do auto design. That’s really good.
It’s weird, we don’t have that many schools, do we? It’s just occurred to me.
But we have schools galore (laughs).You only need to walk around Munich, see for yourself.
We have too many?
We have too many I have just finished supervising two designers at the UdK in Berlin*19 (Berlin’s University of the Arts). I got them through their Masters.
And?
Difficult.
I could give you one more example, of what I consider to be very characteristic of the Federal Republic of Germany. At the moment the ICC*20 (International Congress Center) is being revamped for, I don’t know, 650 million.
Yeah, I heard about it. 650 is not enough. It’s on the up and up at the moment.
Yes. And the Palace of the Republic*21 has been demolished. Victors’ culture. No historical awareness. Christo*22 wrapped the Reichstag up . The historian Kohl*23 didn’t go in, he went for an ice cream. That says everything about our society.
Yes, what we need is a vision again. We no longer have any.
Zero.
Zero, … I can’t tell you right now what Germany stands for.
Zero.
That’s why it’s even more important today – with your truffle-seeking nose you have to sniff your way through the world and experience the most diverse cultures, only then to find out what your own culture is.
(Pause, both of them ponder for a while)
Do you remember that we gave you three thousand different mobile phones for the collection? I wanted so much to organise an exhibition about mobile phones and the culture of communication.
Yes, of course.
They’re hidden somewhere in the basement … there were three thousand different ones …
Yes. You only need to look at the green Siemens cell phones.
Fantastic.
Yes.
The Nokias. The banana.
Yes, the ban … , oh everything.
The first… was terrific.
Yes.
Everyone wants to go back now.
Yes, of course, they do.
Everyone wants their old cell phone back. Failure is also part of culture.
Along with tormenting oneself. Not being satisfied.
I know. I hate it sometimes. The fact that I never develop in moments when I am successful, but only in those moments when I torment myself, when I haven’t managed to crack it. When I don’t make any progress. That is when I develop further. I don’t want it like that, but unfortunately that’s the way it is.
I also intensely hate those things people have to do nowadays. For example, I never did any company outings. Not a one.
Summer parties? Christmas celebrations?
No.
No private parties?
No.
Employee appraisal interviews?
Yes, they could come to me at any time.
(both laugh loudly)
They just had to wait a quarter of an hour. But then please come, do come.
(laughs)
Crazy. Did you go to farewells?
No. I wasn’t at the farewell to Baumstark*24. I’ve been to a few welcomings, but always stood somewhere in the background.
And how did you deal with exhibition openings?
Yes, I had a few problems there, too. That means, I had to have some peace and quiet a half to three quarters of an hour before I was due to perform. And very, very important – I always had to have a person I could trust there with me.
Ah, to have a good atmosphere, I can really understand that.
I then forced them not to stray from my side. Because you just have no idea about all those people you are going to be inundated with. And all those people who think they absolutely have to tell you something.
I know.
What I always needed, say after half to three quarters of an hour, was to go outside into the fresh air and take a deep breath, smoke a cigarette. Maybe two. Then to say “Into the fray again”.
I understand.
(Both are silent, Attila barks boldly into the silence)
You know what totally shocked me, something I just found out about? If you type in the top three search clicks, “Sex,” “Jesus,” and “Design” on Google, which one gets the most hits?
Sex, Jesus, Design? Design.
Exactly. By far. Really, by a long chalk. We talk about design being a dying art form that constantly has to be reinvented. But it gets the most hits. Can you explain to me how that can be?
That’s why I’m so sceptical, because of the changed meaning of design. When they say design, most people mean some-thing completely different. Most of them mean something that has somehow been styled into a fashion, or haircut or food or whatever.
I will design your financial plan for you.
(both laugh)
I’ve seen what is being taught in design theory – forget it. Forget it. (reflects) And another example from my high school days. For our Abitur exam essay we had the title “The Yellow Peril”. All about oil being far too precious to make plastic out of. What happened? Even more plastic. Now we don’t know how to get rid of it.
(The radio is playing in the background:“The dreams we had, the love we shared …”)
Is sustainable design important for you? Especially when sustainable means – I can use something for centuries.
Yes. From our time on Earth only what we have made remains. Only things survive us.
That’s good. Only the things.
And now the problem is that plastic will survive. Who designed plastic? In the end, is some chemist the greatest designer in the world?
That’s our problem.
Of course, you have a clear view on this right now.
Yes.
Does design have an answer to the environment?
No. Because the training is not at all going in this direction. They are all looking for a job and industry gives them only jobs that will increase sales. That will make products more attractive, but not more sustainable. And then you have to compare both. There is somebody, though, who does sustainably thinks and someone with whom I get along well. Vossenkuhl*25.
I agree! Vossenkuhl has written books together with Otl Aicher*26 . Yet another good example: when the right-hand and the left-hand brain halves work together, it gets big. but I thank you for bringing that up. In August Wethke called and asked if we would like to put together an Otl-Aicher exhibition for the centenary. Of course, I would definitely like to do that – he really deserves it. He is one of the outstanding designers of the last century. Just imagine if we were to do something like that now.
An exhibition about design, graphic design, architecture, global change. At the Olympic Games he even focused on mobility. I would really like to do something like that.
(Pause, Michael looks at Florian’s T-shirt)
If it’s not black, put it back.
(both laugh)
I love your T-shirt.
Yes. so true.
Look, I’ve brought you a book. Do you know it? A Korean philosopher currently living in Berlin. Byung Chul Han*27. It has given a lot of people a lot of pleasure.
Byung Chul Han. No.
He has a very good view of our current, tired society. The super-ficiality that surrounds us. Also found in things. Everything is so smooth. We are so preoccupied with our smartphones and wind tunnel vehicles. In the truest sense of the word.
I’m curious.
Funnily enough, it doesn’t make you depressed, it makes you happy. Because you see that there is someone …
… who thinks.
Yes, who thinks. And it’s just fun to go through those brain convolutions with him. He’s also seems to be a completely free spirit.
That’s my problem, when I’m sitting here and staring at the ceiling, I can’t exchange my ideas on a level that is intellectual enough.
I totally understand.
Yes?
Yes. I really enjoy “spintisiering” with you, as you always say when you mean mulling over absurdities. It’s actually madness, these are the moments you long most strongly for, I find.
(silence, both are thinking)
I have such a lot of e-mails. That is the result of one week, but it’s something different from when they all come.
If there is poverty anywhere, it is a social poverty that we have. It is not a question of age, it affects everyone. Especially this mindset, ”I’m going to stay at home, I’m going to do my thing , I’m going to go it alone through the world” is simply the most boring thing around right now. It’s simply the time you spend together, and a certain kind of …
… Exchange.
Exchange. Exchange is everything.
Exchange is everything. We just had a few good conversational exchanges again.
I’m already looking forward to the next few weeks. Then we’ll speak about putting on exhibitions.
(Prof. Dr. Florian Hufnagl left this world 2 weeks later …)